Your Missing Piece to Massive Audience Growth with Gary Arndt

Courtney Elmer - 00:00
As business owners, we're constantly bombarded with messages about the next big thing we should be doing to grow our brand. But in today's episode, we're talking about a highly underrated strategy that's not just another shiny object but a powerful way to create real leverage in your marketing. Now with this strategy, you'll be able to cut your marketing time in half, generate consistent leads for your business, and build massive brand visibility without having to create content every day or spend a fortune on ads.

Courtney Elmer - 00:31

So if I've got your attention, stay tuned because we are revealing all of that and more next right here on the AntiFragile Entrepreneurship podcast. Globally ranked among the top shows in business and education, we are known for helping overworked online business owners navigate the ups and downs on the way to seven figures.

Each week you are going to learn how to get the right systems, structure, and support in place so you can build self-sustaining business growth strategies that thrive in a rapidly changing digital environment and grow through what you go through to create a greater income, influence, and impact you deserve. This is AntiFragile Entrepreneurship.

Courtney Elmer - 01:14

Welcome back! You're listening to another episode of AntiFragile Entrepreneurship™. This is episode 173, and I'm going to cut right to the chase. Today we are talking about the lost revenue you're missing out on. If you aren't yet leveraging a podcast as a part of your marketing strategy. Chances are you've probably heard that podcasting can be a very powerful way to generate leads and expand your thought leadership.

Courtney Elmer - 01:41

After all, Every entrepreneur that you look up to and aspire to be like likely has a podcast. And as a business owner, you know marketing is key to audience growth. It's the thing that keeps you relevant and top of mind with your ideal clients. But at the same time, you also run a very tight schedule. So you're not sure if you can keep up with the time commitment of something like a podcast because you're already spending so much time on marketing, you already have so much on your plate, and even though people in your community frequently ask, hey, do you have a podcast? Because if you do, I would totally listen. But if you're like most entrepreneurs.

Courtney Elmer - 02:16

Chances are you are burnt out from having to post three to four days a week, consistently coming up with content ideas that barely even drive sales because your content just gets buried in the newsfeed within 24 hours. And I'd also be willing to bet you've got a wealth of info you want to share, but you struggle when it comes to creating content that can really make a difference for someone in 15 seconds or a 250 word caption. It feels like your content needs to be shorter and shorter and shorter in order to keep people's attention. And so you post like five times a week, but nothing changes.

And what you probably haven't realized is that right now, you're relying too heavily on short-form content for your audience growth. You might be looking for quick solutions to generate leads and grow your following. But you haven't yet learned how to create long-term stability and leverage within your marketing strategy. And because you're trying to build your presence on two or more platforms simultaneously, all in an effort to gain awareness for your brand, you might not have realized that these individual efforts aren't gelling.

Courtney Elmer - 03:27
They're not working together as one larger, cohesive marketing strategy. And it's costing you a lot of time, a lot of energy. And a lot of effort. And maybe you look around, and you wonder, how on earth does every respected thought leader I follow seem to be everywhere at once? They're everywhere on every platform, every day, and they've got millions of followers to show for it. And you want that too, but you don't know how to get there without burning yourself out on content creation.

But here's the thing, if we take off our consumer hat for a moment, And instead take a step back and put on our marketing hat and look more closely at what these leaders are doing. You'll begin to notice that these seemingly omnipresent leaders actually have one place where they're publishing their thought leader content.

Courtney Elmer - 04:23

It's just getting chopped up into tiny little bits and blasted across all corners of the internet every single day.
Their secret is a top-ranked podcast. You'd be hard-pressed to find a thought leader who doesn't have a podcast because their podcast is both the catalyst and the source of all the other content they create.

And this is why I've asked Gary Arndt to join me on the show today because not only is Gary a world traveler and a travel blogger whose blog was named by Time Magazine as one of the top 25 travel blogs in the world, Gary took advantage of the unexpected difficulties he faced during the pandemic to launch a podcast, which he has since grown to over 1.3 million monthly downloads and counting in just two short years.

Courtney Elmer - 05:18

Imagine what your business growth strategies would look like if you had that kind of exposure and that kind of engaged audience growth hanging on your every word. And today, he's going to walk you through exactly how he grew his show so fast, But even more importantly, why podcasting can be such a powerful tool for the audience growth of your business.

Gary, welcome to the show. I'm delighted to have you here today, and I've really been looking forward to our conversation.

Gary Arndt - 05:57

Thank you for having me.

Courtney Elmer - 05:58

Just before we hit record, we were talking about the success that you've had in podcasting and how you were able to grow your show & audience growth to over a million monthly downloads in two and a half years. Is that right?

Gary Arndt - 06:13

Yes.

Courtney Elmer - 06:14

That's incredible. Absolutely incredible. Someone who is a one-man show too. For our listeners listening, I want to make sure that we establish this from the get-go. You are the writer, the host, and the producer of your podcast. You don't have a huge team behind you helping you produce this.

Gary Arndt - 06:28

There are no VAs, there are no assistants, there are no spouses, there are no children. It's all me. Yeah.

Courtney Elmer - 06:37

Incredible. What was the driving force that got you started in the podcasting space? Why a podcast?

Gary Arndt- 06:45

So I started by doing online audio over 20 years ago, and this was streaming on Winamp when it was available. I was playing EverQuest, and I would be our EverQuest Guild's DJ, and people would listen to the Shout Cast stream while I was doing that. I used to own a network of video game websites, and we had a thing called All Game Radio where we would stream over Real Audio. We weren't saving the files or anything. It was just a live stream which is actually a thing once again, but that's kind of what it was originally.

And then, in 2009, I began. I sold my house to travel around the world back in 2007, and in 2009, I asked a couple of people I know who were interested in starting a podcast. So I and two other co-hosts started a show called This Week in Travel, and This Week in Travel went on for 11 years. Then the pandemic hit.

And since I sold my house in 2007, I have been traveling around the world pretty much full-time.
Towards the end, I did have an apartment, and I would be on the road for half to a third of a year.
But my life, my business, everything was around travel.

Gary Arndt- 07:52

I became a very accomplished travel photographer. I was one of the most awarded travel photographers in the world. And when the pandemic hit in the span of one month, I remember coming home from Portugal I landed on February 28th, 2020. I had COVID the first week of March. By the end of March, I had lost 95% of my income. Every contract I had was canceled.

The traffic to the website had dried up. All affiliate income was gone. Gone. And at first, like a lot of people, I thought this was going to be over within a few weeks. It's like, you know, in April or maybe May. You know, worst case. But no, that clearly didn't happen. And I began talking to some people, some very high-up people in the travel industry. And they told, no, this is not a temporary thing.

Gary Arndt - 08:37
This is going to take years. A lot of people don't realize this. The travel and tourism industry is one of the biggest industries in the world. It's on par with agriculture and energy, like massive sectors. And so, never in my wildest dreams did I imagine that could just disappear overnight. And it did. And I realized I was having some issues. I had a very popular travel blog and a pretty popular social media following. That whole business was becoming something I didn't like.

Blogging was nothing but SEO, so everyone started writing the same articles. 15 things to do in Las Vegas, 15 things to do in Disney World. It was the same thing over and over because that's what people were searching for. Social media became doing stuff just for clicks or for views, and it became very superficial.
So I found myself in a position like, well, I cannot rely on the travel industry anymore.

Gary Arndt- 09:35
So I need to think of something else. And I had this idea a few years earlier for doing a podcast. It was going to be a show that was not a travel show. It was more of a history show. I had the artwork done. I had the theme music all picked out. I had everything ready to go. And I began doing research. I realized these episodes are going to be two or three hours long. And that is just not a viable business model as per business growth strategies. To do three-hour episodes that are not an interview show.

So I shelved it. But then I was at an event, and I was talking to a friend of mine, a very successful guide, multiple New York Times best-selling books, ran very large conferences, and he was quitting his conference business and asked him why? Because it was really successful.

Gary Arndt - 10:18

He said, because I started a daily podcast, and it's the best thing I've ever done. And so I went back to this, like, What if instead of having long shows, what if I did the opposite, what if I had short shows? And so I came up with this format, and on July 1st, 2020, I launched it, and I have been pumping out shows every day since. I just had episode number 1000. The show I'm putting out tomorrow will be episode 1017. And the show has just been getting more and more popular.

And I publish every month, I publish a report on how my traffic did and the state of the business on my personal website gary.arndt.com. So it's just kind of a behind-the-scenes look at what I'm doing. And it's been far more successful than I ever imagined.

Gary Arndt - 11:08

And podcasting. You know, I've had a lot of businesses over the last, you know, 25 years all involved online, some content creation. The best business growth strategies I've been involved in. Burn-on. From almost every measure you can think of.

Courtney Elmer - 11:21

I am fascinated by this because, as someone who hosts a podcast and as someone who teaches podcasting, you know, the barrier to entry seems high for a lot of people, right? And most of the people I work with they're running businesses. They have families. There's a lot on their plate. And they think, gosh, podcasting is going to be so time-consuming. It's going to take me so long to come up with that content, to research, to record, to edit, to do all the things, right?

If it's an interview show, to find guests, to bring them on the show, to polish the interviews. And I think the barrier to entry seems high to people who don't know what an easy way it is to connect with your audience growth and to talk about something that you truly are passionate about.

I don't know if you'd agree with this, but I think those are two very essential ingredients to podcasting which I heard you mention in sharing your story just now; you know social media didn't cut it for you. It was boiled down to clicks and views, which I think many of us have frustration with if that's not something that you know. We're not in it for our ego, right? We're in it to help people to connect with people to share our knowledge on whatever it might be.

Gary Arndt - 12:26

Nothing is better than podcasting for connecting with people. There really isn't. Because it's when you're connecting with people. YouTube, there are people who have done very well on YouTube, but I'm reaching people when they're going to bed when they're waking up in the morning, when they're in their car, when they're out for a walk, when they have time to reflect and think, not just another minute of screen time.

In all the travel content I've done and all the stories I've done traveling around the world, I never had people saying I made them cry. And that happens frequently with my podcast. And my podcast is not about making people cry.

Gary Arndt - 13:07

It's a scholarly, kind of more academic-type podcast. It's not sharing emotional stories. But I do share stories from history and things like that. And I have nine-year-old kids who listen with their parents. And I keep the show, you know, I like to say it's as clean as history will allow.

They're listening along with adults; the show is not a children's show. It's not meant for kids, but if you're a 9-year-old that's listening to the show, good for you because you're one leg up on it already. But yeah, podcasting is great; it doesn't promote shallowness and superficiality, and you can also have nuance.

Gary Arndt- 13:47

You can say something; I could say something sarcastic as a joke, right? And you could tell in the tone of my voice what I mean. That does not come across in the text very well. That people can, you know, if you just literally, you know, he said, oh, gee, that looks really nice. You know, I was being sarcastic, but that doesn't come across. But in podcasting, it does. And, you know, the two most successful things I've noticed for reaching people and promoting a business are email newsletters and podcasting.

Gary Arndt - 14:17

And those are two things where there are no gaudy public numbers available. For social media, for YouTube, oh, you have 100,000 subscribers; oh, you have this many followers. And that's what it really boils down to, right? It's getting that numbers. And so people get fake followers. Have you ever heard of someone getting fake newsletter subscribers?

Why would you? You'd have to pay for it. And nobody would even know! In fact, you get rid of people that don't open emails; you call them. It's such a different medium, and it's far better at reaching people because they can hear you and put a personality to your voice rather than something they don't know who you are on Instagram, really.

Courtney Elmer - 15:05

Excellent points. I was reading an article just this week that said the number one reason people listen to podcasts and continue listening to podcasts is because of the host. They fall in love with the host. They fall in love with you. And that is so powerful, especially in a world where we're so hyper-connected.

Courtney Elmer - 15:22

As you mentioned a moment ago, where the screens are there, taking up all of our time and focus and attention, But to have a podcast like yours that actually teaches people something and it comes from a place of genuine interest on your part. And being a daily podcast, Gary, this is what I'm really curious about.
How do you come up with fresh and engaging topics every day? What's your research process look like for that? How much time does it take you?

Keep in mind people listening who are considering podcasts, right? They run businesses, they're busy, and they might not be looking to do a daily show, but curious to know how much time is involved in this process and what's the payoff.

Gary Arndt- 15:57

Okay, so the name of the show is Everything Everywhere Daily. So the show is literally about everything. And that's not an exaggeration. So I've done the exact opposite of what people tell you to do with a podcast. Oh, niche down, keep niching. No. I just, whatever topic interests me, it's like Forrest Gump. Every day it's a box of chocolates. You never know what you're going to get.

Topics vary widely. When I started the show, the first thing I did is I sat down and I write 100 show ideas, which is something I recommend no matter what podcast you have, even if it's not daily. If you have an interview show, come up with 100 guests. Whatever your show topic is, come up with 100 ideas because then you have them in the bag. You have a weekly show that's two years' worth of content. And then, as you think of more stuff, I just keep adding it to the list.

Gary Arndt - 16:42

And then, as I do an episode, I take it off the list. And so right now, I'm at, I think, 879 things on the list. And then I get listeners that say, hey, you should do a show about this. You should do a show about that. And some of these things I had never heard of before. So I go down the rabbit hole researching those things. And often, one show begets another show.

Gary Arndt - 17:03

So the show that I released today was about the Berlin Wall. And why it was built, how it fell, and one of the stories that came across was how all of Eastern Europe basically fell due to one decision made by Hungary to open up their border with Austria. And I thought this was fascinating. It's like, well, I'm going to have to go in-depth on this in a different episode.

And so this happens all the time. In almost every episode, I'm either referring to a past episode or promising a future episode, so kind of tying everything together. And then the other interesting thing I did, and I initially did it as a lark, is someone sent me a comment saying, hey, I've listened to your every episode.

Gary Arndt- 17:43

This was hundreds of episodes ago. And I don't know if you've ever watched Saturday Night Live, but they have this thing called the Five-Timers Club. If you've hosted the show five times, they have this pretend club you join where you get a smoking jacket with five on it. So I said, welcome to the completionist club. We have a concierge available, it's available 24 hours, etc., and then more people started writing me saying, oh, I've joined the completionist club.

So if they're from a different country, it's like, oh, well, you're from the Australia one, we have Tim Tam's available, we have Victoria Bitteron Tap, all the things that are unique to that country, and then people started listening, I listened to them all twice. Or I've listened to them three times. It's like, oh, your platinum status, your triple diamond status in the club.

And it's all just made-up stuff, but it's encouraging people to listen to more and more episodes. And it's happening more and more often now, where I get someone that says, I just discovered your show a few months ago, and I binged them all. And they listened to basically nothing but the podcast for several months.

Courtney Elmer - 18:47

That's incredible. What I'm hearing, though, Gary, is that what you're really creating is a community of people. You're connecting people all around the world through your podcast.

Courtney Elmer - 18:57

Yes, it's you connecting with them. It's them connecting with you. There's that two-way relationship going on. But even though all these listeners might not know each other, what you've done, just through this completionist club, which by the way, as I was reading reviews on your podcast, I saw people mention it, and I was like, Wow, amazing!

And I assume that's what it meant, that they had completed all the episodes. And that you're building this engaged community around your podcast. I think this is something a lot of podcast hosts do struggle to do.
What other business growth strategies have you used to continue fostering that community?

Gary Arndt - 19:29

It's kind of just developed. When I started the show, it was, here's a bunch of things I'm interested in.
There's got to be other people out there that are interested as well. That's really all it was. And I just keep finding these people that are curious people. That's really it. It's all about curiosity. And I'm able to peek that in them. And that's kind of what it is.

And I think that, yeah, I've clearly hit a nerve. And I think that because of my travels and just because of my educational background, I've got degrees in five different subjects that are really all different from each other. I'm able I was able to do this show, and I think of the people who are able to do the show; most of them wouldn't do the show because of the demands of doing a daily show.

And I should just add from a business standpoint, the economics of doing a daily podcast really work well.

Gary Arndt- 20:23

If you were to listen to a one-hour podcast that had 14 ads in it, that would probably be excessive. I do two ads a day. No one's really complained. But that's 14 a week. So I'm just dividing, and I do about an hour's worth of content, maybe 70 minutes. So by splitting it up, I'm able to have a greater advertising surface area than a typical one-hour podcast.

The other thing is that every time you create some piece of content, it is an opportunity to be discovered. It doesn't matter how long it is; it's just a piece of content. Through search, or through sharing, or through word of mouth, everything you make is an opportunity for someone to find it.

So, at a certain level, it's also a quantity game. Yes, you need to have a high-quality show, but it's also about how much you've put out. And it is not a coincidence that some of the most successful shows have been the longest because they've been around long enough for people to be discovered. The quantity element and the time element can't really do anything about time other than not quit, but the quantity element is one that a lot of people don't consider.

Courtney Elmer - 21:36

Very true. I often tell people. Every episode is like depositing, putting a deposit into a library of content that you are creating, that is evergreen, that is like you said earlier on can be found anywhere, anytime, by someone in any country in any time zone that can listen to it and benefit from it. So it's almost like every episode is like a virtual salesperson, if you will, right? If you do have something to sell and it's out there working for you.

It's out there bringing people back to you. And I'm curious because you have such a wealth of knowledge, both academically from your experience, from your knowledge just through traveling and absorbing all these different cultures and experiences that you've had in your travels. Has it been a challenge to provide informative content while keeping it engaging and accessible for the wide audience growth that you've built? And how have you worked through that?

Gary Arndt - 22:29

It really hasn't. So before I ever got involved in entrepreneurship or the internet, I was a very successful academic debater and academic debate coach. I was one of the top debaters in the United States. I placed in the top 10 in the United States in my junior and senior years of college. I coached several teams, from high school teams to being in the top 15 in the country several years in a row, one multiple state championship.

So communicating and speaking is something that I've always been very comfortable with. And I've always just had a knack for taking something complicated and distilling it down into its essence. So I've done many shows that were very complicated because they were very large subjects, and trying to condense them down into 10 minutes.

Gary Arndt- 23:11

So I did one that was like a brief history of the Mongol Empire. A whole lot of people can spend their careers studying this topic, and I needed to condense it down to something brief. I am under no illusion.
This isn't the final say in any topic. This is a brief overview to hopefully get people interested so they can follow their own path of doing research and reading books on a subject or something like that. So far, I think I've done a reasonably good job at it.

When I talk to other podcasters, A lot of people think that, okay, you're either a solo show or an interview show, and there's nothing wrong with either one, but I always tell people if you have an interview show to throw in a solo show once in a while. A lot of times are afraid to do it, and what they find is that the solo shows, because of what you said, people listen to a podcast for the host; they are their most popular shows.

Gary Arndt - 24:03

And it's a lot easier in some ways because you don't have to worry about scheduling a guest and making sure they show up and making sure their audio equipment is, and I'm sure you've dealt with all these things.
They're in a bad environment for recording. It's just you. And that makes it super easy to edit and, you know, produce and then get the show at the door. I always tell people to do that, and that's what I do every day.

Courtney Elmer- 24:30

It sounds scary like your journey to podcasting success has been picture-perfect. I started this podcast. I went into it with this vision. I started tackling it with this approach. I grew it to this number very quickly, and it's very impressive, truly, the achievement that you have achieved in this short amount of time.

Because for most podcasters, and for you listening in case you're unaware, Most podcast hosts, if they stay in the game for a year, are lucky to get around 2,000 total downloads to their show in that year's time. Let's say they stay in the game long enough. Yes, the time does compound. Yes, the compounding effect can take place and help you grow. But 2,000 downloads a year, 6 years in, that's 12,000 downloads.

Gary Arndt- 25:12

I usually have 25,000 downloads before lunch.

Courtney Elmer - 25:17

So, what I want to ask you then, Gary, is, you know, because you've achieved so much in such a short time, and that's not the path that most podcasters take. What are some of the obstacles that you've faced during your journey of podcasting? How did you overcome them?

And what are some of the obstacles that if someone's listening to this saying, gosh, I've really been wanting to do the podcast, this is my sign, I feel like I should just go for it, what are some of the things they need to be thinking about in order to ensure that it's a success?

Gary Arndt- 25:47

A podcast, fundamentally, is a media property. It is in the same ballpark as the Avengers movies. Obviously, the scale is very different. Those were hundreds of millions of dollars. But the Avengers movies, let's take the second Avengers movie that came out. It was the second of a two-part series, and everyone knew this movie was coming out. Everyone. Yet they spent $200 million on promotion and marketing.

I've spent several tens of thousands of dollars promoting my show. I buy advertising on other podcasts and advertising on podcast apps. And it is some of the best money I've ever spent. So good that when I started doing it, I was scratching my head. I was like, well, why doesn't everybody do this? One of the things I did is I calculated the value of a subscriber to my show. And if you're just doing advertising, it's very easy to calculate.

Gary Arndt - 26:40

You determine the average CPM, the number of ads per show, and the number of shows per year, and you can calculate what percent of a CPM one person would represent. So keep the math simple. Let's say you had one ad per episode. Let's say you did 50 episodes a year. You have a weekly show. One person would represent 5% of a CPM, M being 1000. So if your average CPM is $25, which is about typical in podcasting, take about 5% of that number.

But if you're doing a daily show, well, now it's about a third of a CPM, and that changes everything. And if you have two ads per show, so like that. And so, what I calculated is the average value of a subscriber for my show is about $14 a year. I am able to acquire a subscriber by running ads on podcast apps such as Overcast, Podcast Addict, Podbean, Pocket Casts, and Overcast for about two to three dollars, sometimes much less. So basically, I am able to arbitrage, and it's a huge difference.

So great that I'm like, again, why isn't anyone doing this and the more I look into it, I realize people are doing it, and it's all the big podcast networks. They are the ones who invest in their shows and are able to see massive audience growth within the first few months. The average podcaster doesn't want to spend anything.

Gary Arndt- 28:05

They go to the free hosting sites, they don't want to spend a dime, and they want success. Maybe that was possible 10 years ago when podcasting was a lot newer. You could just keep podcasting for audience growth. It's just not true today. You have to make an investment, and this isn't like a website with SEO where you can just write something and hope to forget it. It's an active process. And so I don't know if you know who Jordan Harbinger is.

Courtney Elmer - 28:34

Yeah, I had him on the show about six months ago.

Gary Arndt - 28:37

Very successful podcast. Last time I heard, you were spending at least half a million dollars a year in promotion, and someone recently told me that maybe over a million dollars a year now. And he's able to do that because he's found out the same thing I did and figured it out before I did, the direct result between promotion and growing a show.

And I've coached several podcasters and taught them how to do this; it's not rocket science. They invest a couple of hundred dollars, it doesn't have to be a lot to start, and instantly they see their audience growth size double or triple because they're getting their name out there. And Facebook ads don't work, and social media does not work. Podcasting works.

Gary Arndt - 29:19

If you want to promote a podcast, you do it on podcasts because 100% of the people who hear it are listening to podcasts. And that's how you do, And that's true of any platform, I should say. If you want to grow your Instagram account, you do it on Instagram. Want audience growth on Facebook? You do it on Facebook. If you want to grow a podcast, you do it on podcasting. And that, I really think, is the key to audience growth.

If you have a marketing budget and are strategic about it, Both in terms of where you're running ads, doing feed drops, and even being a guest on other shows like I'm doing right now, that is a way to reach podcast listeners and help grow your show and audience growth. And it's something you have to be active about.

Gary Arndt - 29:57

The build it and they will come does not work, and I don't care how great your show is. Even if it was great and even if you had word of mouth, the way exponential audience growth works is that it's going to take time to increase audience growth. And that still may take years, so you can either wait years for that to happen or you could accelerate the process.

And I should say of the tens of thousands of dollars I spent promoting my show; I am now making tens of thousands of dollars a month. It has all come back easily, and now that I'm making that much money per month, I'm going to spend even more money promoting my show so I can get to 2-3 million downloads a month because I believe that is very possible given the nature of my show and the wide appeal.

Courtney Elmer - 30:45

Yes, 100%. 100%. I think you made a great point there about a lot of people looking to promote. Let's say it's a podcast for the sake of a simple example. They're going to start a podcast, but they look to promote that on Instagram or on social media. What's so interesting is I rarely talk about my podcast outside of my podcast.

Word of mouth, people see it in my email signature. I might mention it on Instagram, but that's not what my Instagram is about. It's not all about this show. And it's so interesting to me that people often don't look at what is the lowest-hanging fruit.

Courtney Elmer - 31:18

I mean, you just laid it out so beautifully. And that really was my next question for you, Gary. I'd like to hear more about your monetization because, for a lot of people that I work with anyway who start podcasts, they have business growth strategies behind them, right? They're starting podcasts for their audience growth, get leads and have those people enroll in their programs, which is one way to monetize podcasts, but in the traditional sense of monetization, sponsors, and ads. What was your strategy there, and what business growth strategies have you found to be the most effective?

Gary Arndt - 31:49

So, roughly speaking, there are two types of Podcast businesses that will ignore hobby podcasts for a while. There's one that's the kind that you mentioned. You're selling a service, coaching, a product, a course, whatever. And your podcast is part of a strategy to, as part of your sales funnel. And that's going to include an email newsletter that's going to include your website that includes social media. It's just one cog in the machine.

The other type of podcast business growth strategy tends to be the domain of larger podcast networks. And that is, just have a really big podcast and sell ads. It's the same audience growth strategy as a TV show or something like that.

Gary Arndt - 32:31

And that is kind of where my show falls. I don't have a course. I don't have a book currently; maybe I will in the future. So right now, the business growth strategies model is basically just selling advertising and having a huge audience growth. But there are several things that I do plan on doing in terms of monetization. One is running trips for listeners.

Now initially, I was going to be doing small group tours. I had a trip planned for Rome, and I had more people interested in that in a 48-hour period than I had ever had doing travel photography for over a decade. I would struggle to get people on trips that I ran to Africa and to Europe and other places. I had 100 people on the waitlist within 48 hours when I announced it on the podcast.

And that was well before the show is 10% of what it is today. Now I have 10 times the number of listeners, and even more people are interested. Now I'm thinking, well, I can't do 10 people in Rome. I'm going to have to rent a riverboat or something in Europe.

Gary Arndt- 33:32

And maybe we get 50 to 100 people on that. Then I don't have to worry about hotels or anything. We can do lectures on the ship at night and really do some interesting things. And so I think that's a huge opportunity for me. I think that's actually an opportunity that a lot of podcasters don't consider doing events or tours. And then, you know, I never did any merchandise. And then people started asking me for merchandise.

They were like, where can I buy your stuff? And I'm like, well, There are T-shirts with the logo on Patreon; that's all I had. And again, because I'm doing this all myself, I eventually want to hire someone so they can take care of that. But there are all kinds of witty things from different episodes that I can add to it. So that'll be something I'll be doing. I don't expect merchandise to be a huge seller. But then there are opportunities for books.

Gary Arndt - 34:28

Because I write a script for every episode, I have, you know, close to a thousand scripts that I've written. Each one becomes a blog post. So I'm using my website, so I have a thousand pages of content that I've put on the website. I do make a little bit of money from advertising on the website, but I actually may stop doing that soon.

I'll probably be launching an email newsletter at some point, and I'm thinking of doing something potentially for homeschoolers, like a daily quiz about that day's episode. Here are some things you can answer. Doing resources for teachers where they can use the podcast as an in-classroom. There's a whole bunch of things, but the core of it right now is advertising.

Courtney Elmer - 35:10

Well, Gary, as a former homeschooler. I was homeschooled from 4th all the way through 12th grade. That would have been the coolest thing to have. I'm just saying, do it because when you're homeschooled, and I had my peer groups, I had the extracurricular activities I was involved in. When it came to actually doing my coursework, I was on my own and often felt like I was doing it in isolation, and it would have been so cool to be able to plug into a community of sorts, even though it's just me listening in my headphones to you.

But learning what you have to offer and having some kind of way to interact, maybe even with other students who are listening. That just would have been so interesting.

Gary Arndt - 35:52

I don't know much about that community. I know I have homeschoolers listening because they tell me this stuff. That is something I think I'll probably have to hire. I have a long list and launching a YouTube channel because there are a lot of educational YouTube channels that are nothing but a voice-over with b-roll footage and still images with a Kenzburn effect that are very successful. You know, millions of subscribers.

And I could literally just take my scripts and repurpose them into YouTube videos very easily. I just need someone to help with the video. So there's a whole lot of stuff I have planned, and it's just a matter of doing it. The biggest downside is actually doing a daily podcast is doing a daily podcast. It's like every day, and people are like, why haven't you gotten this done? It's like, well, because I got to get tomorrow's show at the door. At the end of the day, that's the thing that has to take priority.

Courtney Elmer - 36:42

Right. And what I'm hearing you say through all of this and all these ideas of what's to come and what you're planning is leverage. You're creating leverage through your podcast. Your podcast is a heartbeat. It's a thing that connects it all. It's the reason for it all. None of the rest of it would exist without the podcast. And the podcast is that's what I just wish more people would realize is what a tool for connection and leverage and, yes, monetization and influence and all that kind of stuff too that podcast really can be.

Gary Arndt - 37:18

And I should add that the competition in the podcasting space is much less than anywhere else. There are millions of YouTube channels. There are, I don't even know, how many billions of websites, how many social media accounts. But guess how many podcasts have been published in the last 10 days? 256,000. If you go to podcastindex.org, it will show you the numbers.

And you often hear, oh, there are millions of podcasts, not really. Most of that number constitutes shows with one episode that was published for free on Anchor. And they're technically, yeah, there's an RSS feed, but they're not real podcasts. If you look at the number of podcasts that are actively published, it's like in the last month. It's been 380,000. And I would say a third to a quarter of those are shows that won't be around in six months. That's part of the churn of new episodes.

So really, it's a much less competitive environment. And yeah, maybe it is a bit more work.

Gary Arndt- 38:26

But, you know, this is my job. I'm a podcaster. That's what I do. Every day I gotta write the show. It's no different than anyone else going to work. The difference is my work can scale. I can have a hundred thousand, I could have potentially a million people listening to every episode, and I can just keep scaling it and scaling it with the same amount of work on my end. And that's kind of the beauty of it. And that's one of the reasons I love this so much as a business. And I'm just; the irony I'd get is I didn't start it sooner.

Courtney Elmer - 39:00

Not starting sooner. I know. I know. If only we would have known, right? Gary, this has been so fascinating to hear your insights, to hear your story, to hear your journey in growing your podcast. For someone listening right now who wants to have a podcast, they want it to be successful. They're walking away from this episode with probably a lot of ideas swirling around. How can we bring it down to the one step that they should take away from this episode? What advice would you give them? What's their next step?

Gary Arndt- 39:30

Start thinking seriously of a show format. And this is really the important part. There's a lot of people that just, and I've been on shows like this as a guest, where it's just like, hey, and then they talk about some stuff for a while, and then they're done. And I can tell when someone invites me to a show, whether or not they're legit; I can tell how serious they are, how they schedule it, what they send me beforehand, and I can tell the messages you sent me in email, it's like, you know, make sure to have your headphones, makes sure to have a good place to record because I'm sure you've had people that haven't had that.

But having that format is really important, and I thought really deeply about that, and my format has never changed in a thousand episodes. I have 30 second cold open, I have nine seconds of intro music, I have two ads, an audio cue that the ads are ending, I have the body of my content, another audio cue, and then I have some at the end where I usually read a listener or reviewer a message. And I've stuck to that.

Gary Arndt- 40:35

It's a very simple format, but it's more than just an idea or a topic. You know, I want to talk about baseball cards. That's not a show. That's an idea. What is the format for that show going to be? Okay, we're going to have this segment where we talk about this; we're going to have this segment where we talk about that. Thinking of what segments are, is it all going to be a guest?

Sometimes I've been on shows where they interview you, and then they edit the interview down. To get rid of a lot of the chit-chat and then the host of the show will put in something, their observations or comments about something that they said. That's a very effective way to condense knowledge down, and it's also a very good format.

So, you know, consider those things and, as I said, also come up with a list of 100 show ideas. And that's important. And then the other thing is you have to stick with it. The vast majority of podcasts never make it to episode seven. I think it's three-quarters that don't make it to episode seven.

Gary Arndt- 41:33

Because they don't take it seriously, it's an afterthought. It's like, yeah, I'd like to start a podcast, and they started; it's just one of many things that they do. And then when push comes to shove, and things get busy, some have to get cut, and it's the podcast. Thankfully, well, I didn't think so at the time, but I was put in a position where I was forced to make this a success.

I lost everything, and I didn't even get into the fact that my neighborhood burned down in a riot.

Courtney Elmer - 42:02

You have to tell us that story before you continue. What happened there?

Gary Arndt- 42:06

Do you remember what happened in Minneapolis in 2020?

Courtney Elmer - 42:10

Yes.

Gary Arndt- 42:11

I lived right off Lake Street. I was kind of in the blast radius of all that stuff. The convenience store I went to every day that was 100 yards from where I lived burned to the ground. I remember rushing out the door at 3 in the morning with firemen surrounded by National Guard units. All of the gas stations' restaurants were trashed.

And so one day, I just got a U-Haul and put all my things in it, and I left. And I just told my landlord, by the way, I'm gone. I didn't ask for permission; I asked for forgiveness. And I said, here are the keys, bye.

Courtney Elmer  - 42:46

Wow. Wow, and how all of this led to you now having this very successful business built around your podcast. And it just seems you have, Gary; you come across so authentically, you have such a love for what you do, you have such a love, I mean, gosh, anyone hosting a daily podcast, you gotta love it, right? But you're so genuine, and I just appreciate you being here and sharing so openly with us today. Thank you.

Gary Arndt- 43:10

You know it's not rocket science. I'm always happy to help people. I don't have a course, I don't have a coaching system or anything, but it's basically having something interesting to say. I made the podcast I wanted to listen to. I guess if I could summarize it into anything, that's what I did. No one was making that show, so I made that show. And it turns out other people wanted to listen to that show too. And that's what worked.

Courtney Elmer - 43:35

Amazing. Yeah, you broke every podcasting rule, like you said, about niching, about, you know, target audience growth. You're doing a daily show versus a weekly doing long episode versus short form, and then you kind of zig everyone else zagged and look at how successful it has been and what it has become.

Gary Arndt- 43:51

And people would say, oh, it doesn't matter when your show comes out, just make sure, you know, put it out when it's ready. No! Did you ever have a daily newspaper that you subscribed to that didn't come out one day, and they just said sorry, it just wasn't good enough, it didn't meet our quality standards? There's no newspaper today.

No, that never happens. If you're making a promise for a weekly show or a daily show or whatever your schedule is, meet that schedule. That is the expectation you're setting. That is the promise you are making for you and your brand.

Gary Arndt- 44:21

And I'll give you a good example. I slept three hours last night. I was exhausted, I ended up going to bed at 1, set my alarm for 4, and I got up and finished my show and got it published. Because it's a daily show and that's what I have to do. And if you're not willing to, I'm not saying you have to do that necessarily for like a daily show, but if you put in the commitment, it will eventually pay off.

And it does take at least 18 months. That's kind of the point where you really start to see things take off. I don't know what it is about that number, but I saw it with myself, I saw it with other people, that that's where you kind of really see traction. And doing anything for 18 months without seeing a payoff is hard. I think that's why most people quit podcasting. They get frustrated.

They say this isn't growing. Why should I do this? And I got frustrated at times too. You see traffic plateau, and you're wondering if this is worth it, if it's ever going to go up. But if you stick with it and you make something good, I think it will.

Courtney Elmer - 45:25

That's it. The commitment. Gary, you certainly are an example of that. And for you listening, if you want to follow Gary and check out his podcast, it's the Everything Everywhere Daily Podcast. I'm assuming everywhere podcasts are found. Is that right? Where's the best place for them to go and find your show?

Gary Arndt- 45:40

Wherever they are listening right now.

Courtney Elmer - 45:43

Awesome. Gary, thank you so much for being here today for sharing all of your wisdom with us. I truly appreciate you.

Gary Arndt- 45:50

Thanks for having me.

Courtney Elmer - 45:52

And thank you so much for joining us here today on another episode of AntiFragile Entrepreneurship™. Now, if you want to learn more from Gary and to connect with him and tune into his podcast, type in Everything Everywhere daily, wherever you listen to your podcasts.

Gary covers such a unique and broad range of topics on his show that you are bound to get hooked, just like the rest of his 1.3 million listeners a month and counting. And if you liked this episode, I would love it if you would share this episode with a friend.

And if you really loved this episode, I would love it even more if you would scroll down in your app on Apple or Spotify and tap the five stars. And if you're listening on Apple, go ahead and leave a review while you're at it. Most people who listen to podcasts don't realize how much your reviews actually help. Because your review does two things. Number one, it lets Apple know that this is a show worth listening to.

Courtney Elmer- 46:48

But more than that, it lets a new potential listener know that this is a show worth listening to. So I always appreciate you whenever you take the time to leave a short review and let me know how this show is impacting your life.

Now next week on the show, we're talking about something that I am seeing a lot lately in the entrepreneurial space that breaks my heart which is the belief that you need more experience or expertise before you can pursue a big goal like writing a book or starting a podcast. And I'm going to prove to you why This just is not true.

And why the expertise you have right now, no matter where you are in your business, is enough. And I'll show you how to leverage the expertise you have to go after everything that you want. So join me back here next week, and until then, let's go out and grow through what we go through together.